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Shatterpoints speculation.

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Post by SansFinalGuardian Fri Aug 18, 2017 1:54 am

this shatterpoint thing sounds a lot like a product of time travel. it has to be true because otherwise... paradox. huh. that explains a lot, actually. so, suppose if the thing doesn't happen, something causes a paradox and the timeline collapses. that leaves just the timelines in which the event happened, making it look like the event is certain to happen. anthropic principle 101.

maybe it's based on someone sending a message back in time? so if the message says 'This and this will happen' then they go ahead and try to do the thing, and if it doesn't happen then they cause a paradox. the reason i favour this idea is because people can twist, find loopholes in and generally dance around the meanings of words, similar to what __RSPTN__ describes.

Thoughts?

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Post by AthensOwl314 Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:43 am

I dunno. I do agree with what you were saying about "it has to be true because otherwise... paradox." That does appear to be the, well, point of a shatterpoint. However, your description of it being specifically due to messages seems a little off, for two reasons.

First: all mentioned shatterpoints, or rather things with shatterpoint status, have been people (making the naming convention of shatterpoint seem more like a literal "point" of "shattering" the timeline?).
The second reason is that messages themselves wouldn't be enough to actually cause a paradox, thinking about it. If you sent someone a note saying "This and this will happen", as you put it, and it does not happen, then the contents of the note would simply either be a lie, or not true for that timeline.

By _RSPTN_'s own descriptions, his death is a certain thing that will happen at a certain time for certain reasons, or at least that's what I've understood. That seems to be the shatterpoint rule-of-thumb, in a way. Going off the general scenario of shatterpoints being people, shatterpoint status seems to be a sort of functional immortality until your eventual death however you are, for lack of a better word here, destined to die. That also seems to be supported by how shatterpoints are being placed to stop the destruction of locales (like Australia.) The shatterpoint cannot die, for specific reasons relating to paradoxes, in that scenario, so no timelines containing that scenario will happen.

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Post by AthensOwl314 Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:49 am

I dunno. I do agree with what you were saying about "it has to be true because otherwise... paradox." That does appear to be the, well, point of a shatterpoint. However, your description of it being specifically due to messages seems a little off, for two reasons.

First: all mentioned shatterpoints, or rather things with shatterpoint status, have been people (making the naming convention of shatterpoint seem more like a literal "point" of "shattering" the timeline?).
The second reason is that messages themselves wouldn't be enough to actually cause a paradox, thinking about it. If you sent someone a note saying "This and this will happen", as you put it, and it does not happen, then the contents of the note would simply either be a lie, or not true for that timeline.

By _RSPTN_'s own descriptions, his death is a certain thing that will happen at a certain time for certain reasons, or at least that's what I've understood. That seems to be the shatterpoint rule-of-thumb, in a way. Going off the general scenario of shatterpoints being people, shatterpoint status seems to be a sort of functional immortality until your eventual death however you are, for lack of a better word here, destined to die. That also seems to be supported by how shatterpoints are being placed to stop the destruction of locales (like Australia.) The shatterpoint cannot die, for specific reasons relating to paradoxes, in that scenario, so no timelines containing that scenario will happen.

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Post by AthensOwl314 Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:00 am

Apologies for the double-post. Anyway, I was doing some digging, and found the old docs from when Pwnz0rz was introduced to time travel.http://unichat-comic.com/docs/?doc=objectivity.txt

"Cool If an event would cause a paradox, *and* iterations of that paradox themselves cause further forked timelines containing the same event, that event defines a shatterpoint. More specifically, the shatterpoint is fulfilled if that event does not happen, and violated if it does. Frequently, shatterpoints are localized to specific events which are the only plausible way to prevent the runaway paradox."

It seems we have been given an official definition of a shatterpoint? According to this description, a shatterpoint is an event, specifically a paradox. So, such events as the grandfather paradox would be a shatterpoint.

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Post by AthensOwl314 Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:01 am

Sorry the copy-paste turned the "8" labeling into an emote, I didn't catch that before I sent.

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Post by Xenocartographer Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:03 pm

Close, but not quite.

Shatterpoints explained:





I tried to prepare a diagram for this, by the way, but realized I'd need higher-dimensional graph paper. I bet the xkcd guy doesn't have to deal with this.

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